Friday, BMX-NY Brothers looked at our pop culture-based identification with the female of the species through the following lenses:

Growing up, who were your idols? And, why?

"Diana Ross. She's the first woman I ever loved." {Facilitator asks, "You didn't love your mother?"}  "I didn't know my mother...When I saw Diana on the Ed Sullivan show singing "Where Did Our Love Go," she was clearly the leader...out front...She was the first Black woman I saw doing what White women do...There was no Black man anywhere on TV that was doing that for me...By the time she [did] The Wiz, she was acting, and mastering that too...They stole the Academy Award from her...Liza Minelli didn't deserve it over Diana...[She was] doing things that were superb in my mind...[They] made me want to do things like them too...It also feminized my manner...I didn't have male role models...I was raised by women...When you're in Tampa Florida, in the absence of male role models...[That's bound to happen]..." 

"Whoopi, Ella, Lauren Bacall, Rosalind Russell, Samantha Stevens [the lead character on the "Bewitched" sit-com,] Oprah...They were not defined by the man they were with...They walked in the room and commanded attention...[On the flip side, there were] Johnnie Gill and Ralph Tresvant, the pop music stars who [I idolized, but] who seemed a little devoid of emotion where I was filled with emotion...The other week when we talked about myths and fairytales, I talked about having identified with the princess in the fairytales...I wanted to be rescued [by a prince]...I remember being a little boy in the second grade and having a crush on another little boy and wanting him to rescue me..."

"Diana had nothing in terms of star power compared to Jackie Wilson, Otis Redding and Clyde Mc Phatter!... or in terms of record sales..."

"There's no question that Jackie Wilson and Otis Redding were spectacular performers...but, Clyde Mc Phatter?...In fact, during the sixties, Diana Ross & the Supremes were second in American popularity, only to Elvis, who white people thought of as god...and the only other act in the world who eclipsed them in record sales was the Beatles..."

"I loved the small white girl from [the] "Small Wonder" TV show...I wanted the fantasy of the white family [in that show]...I remember thinking how, if I was a girl, it would be so much easier...I could identify with Diana [Ross's] daughter [as] Joan Clayton [on "Girlfriends"]...I identified with Tootie on "Facts of Life"...And, [for identifying with those characters,] as I grew up and started dating, I started wanting men to take me out, and bring me flowers...and not being able to understand why I was upset if they didn't bring me flowers...[And, I] was not tuned in to my masculinity for a very long time..."

"Elizabeth Montgomery [as Samantha Stevens in "Bewitched"]...That was about power, or the idea of power...[But] I was fascinated by Lionel Ritchie...even before he started getting his facial surgery...I thought he was amazing...and Gregory Hines..."

"I had a lot of male crushes...[But my idols were] Diana [Ross]...the beauty of Raquel Welch...I lusted after [TV actor and film director] Robert Hooks, Jim Kelly, Fred Williamson...The only musical icon I idolized was Stevie Wonder because of his social consciousness...When I fell in love with Jim Kelly, I was fifteen and it was a defining moment for me... I knew there were men I appreciated...But, I didn't have the space to say that... I didn't feel as if I could put a poster of a man [I was in love with] up on my wall...As a young man it was easier to say, 'Oh, she's beautiful' and put up a picture of a woman..."

"I wasn't really aware I was gay...But there was something about Tevin Campbell that always made me pause...and Wesley Snipes...One day, I had a female date over and she went through my cd collection and she said, "You're gay"..."

{Facilitator says, "I was Erica Kane!...I came to New York and took it by storm...In work, and in relationships with White people, I learned early on [my identification with white women] was perfectly encouraged... I worked in drag... and I didn't know at the time it made White people feel comfortable..They didn't have to deal with me...with a Black man...I made a lot of money in drag...When I began to develop some Black consciousness, that changed...BMX founder Cleo Manago talks about what he calls the Kato Calen syndrome [the White house guest who O. J. Simpson housed rent-free on his estate]...where, many of us operate with a white man living in our brains rent-free, taking up space...I still latch onto [White] female characters [if I'm not mindful]...Carrie Bradshaw...I didn't come into my malehood until the late nineties...I gauged my importance by the number of White people I had in my life..."}

Might our preoccupation with Divas curb our connection to our manhood?

"I never idolized any Black women...I always idolized Black men...My brother idolized Diana [Ross] and used to put on a wig and pretend to be her...I thought he was strange..."

"I think [this is] an important conversation because so much behavior among same gender loving Black men carries with it a certain kind of entitlement [that borders on arrogance]...Divas, to me, are something negative...These women who want more than they're entitled to...More than they deserve...Who are condescending  and who behave badly..."

In navigating adversities in the workplace is 'bitchy diva,' or 'angry Black man' the more effective tack?

"Diva or angry Black man?...Neither...Passive-aggressive works for me...I feel like there's a time and place for everything...On the street sometimes an angry Black man has come out..."

{Facilitator says, "When I deal with clients, they see me as a gay man...When I deal with management, they see me as a Black man...Since I'm not getting [paid] money from healthy Black people, I make a conscious choice [about which persona I project]..."}

"When I was working in a Black and Latino school in Brooklyn and the kids were not having it...not hearing me...I yelled... ...I guess it was my father...my voice dropped [into bass range]...I said, 'Sit down!...Somebody told me, White people only understand sarcasm...In a restaurant, this White gay manager [kept sniping at me]...I had to pull him aside at one point and ask him, 'Is there a problem?'...It turned out, he was just being a bitchy diva...So, do I use bitchy diva sometimes?...Maybe..."

"At work, I use [the angry Black man] with White people..I decided a long time ago, I was not going home wondering, 'Did he [have the nerve to] say that?'...They would go home saying, 'Did he say that?'...I'm very entitled...Someone called me narcissistic...And, I'm not sure they might not be right...[But] I don't know if I liked females enough to want to model myself after them...And I do give you the angry Black man...But, I'm not angry...I may blow up at someone who's being disrespectful...But, then, the next moment, I'm fine...I give myself full right to act a fool and get angry, because I'm not angry, but I'm in touch with all my emotions...Today, I'm no longer a victim...I'm very entitled...But, I don't consider that bitchy..."

{Facilitator says, "I don't play with managers...I use assertive communication...And I don't engage in witty banter with them...I think we've all been socialized to take care of White people...and then, when we don't, they don't know how to deal with it..."}

"I absolutely detest narcissistic white women...They have hurt me in the past...When they don't get what they want, they lie...I try to stay away from Black men who act like narcissistic White women...I've gotten fired from many jobs...I'm coming back from an interview now for a job I turned down before because there are so many narcissistic White women there...They believe they're supposed to be featured..."

Might one of the side-effects of idolizing women be to make us docile?

"I've learned from this group, when I identify with Blackness, I'm able to identify the elephant in the room [and hold people to account for] some of those issues...[including] male supremacy, and hegemony..."

"A brother came into the hospital [with] a fever of 103...newly diagnosed with HIV...I don't know how many times I've seen White women come in entitled to be treated, and I treated him like that...And, it was as if I had stepped over a line...They said, 'Well, Doctor, you've seen him a long time'...It was only a few minutes...They wanted me to throw him out...But, They see you as a buffoon [when you behave like a bitchy diva]...You are not a White woman...They will not see you as one...treat you as one...All that other stuff...You need to tone that down and be more direct..."

{Facilitator says, "Somewhere early on, we internalized [that model]...In large part, [taking on femaleness] is a way of apologizing for being Black...One of the reasons I do this [work] is because I'm concerned about the next generation of same gender loving youth...As soon as we come out of the womb, we're seen as criminals...[There are] many factors...The lack of daddies...Seeing Mama doing everything...The media...They got Shawn Hannity, Bill O'Reilley telling lies...Tell me one Black man who has that power...Expressing his opinions in prime time..."}

Can obsessing over Divas render us caricatures of ourselves?

"The other side of that coin is when we become those diva stereotypes...We're not doing the Black community any good...I just got fed up with a group of guys who thought they were [the] Sex in the City [women]...You can't get them to talk about anything serious...When these situations came my way, I got very angry...Right now we live in a pop culture world, and there is currency in that posturing...I saw a girl in the projects with a weave down to here, and a little dog under her arm like Paris Hilton..."

"I don't know if the strategies are ones we adapt or are cast in...If I'm sarcastic as a Black gay man, then I'm seen as bitchy...If I'm angry, I'm an angry Black man..."

"I wonder if this culture of diva-ish-ness among Black men isn't a symptom of our hatred of women...I also wonder if we can't have a conversation without White people being a part of it..."

{Facilitator says, "Acknowledging where problems come from is different than obsessing about, or beating up on white people..."}

"I personally acknowledge the transgender community...It's important that we not demonize Brothers who identify with femaleness...That energy...We don't even acknowledge transgenders as part of the community..."

"We are constructing Black manhood...Because there is no template...slavery erased it...We are so many centuries away from the original template from Africa...No one wants to be a Black man...When I see the wannabe Trans...There are the psychological Trans who experience themselves as women living in men's bodies...But, there are others who so don't want to be a Black man...When you see the image of white women being cherished, being wanted, being [respected]...That says to them, I will give you an identity...[and] things...I don't know how to be brown and walk around under this sun...There are times when we hate ourselves so much that racism is sub-contracted to us...They don't even have to do it any more...We have so assimilated to being Black as a contrast to being White that we don't know what it is to be...I get off the train at 157th Street...A Latino neighborhood...And there are all these White women on magazine covers at the news stand...[And Latino] People [are] talking about, 'Is Jenifer Aniston having a baby?!'...Who gives a fuck?!...Turn off the TV!...We eat the poison and then we're pissed that we're sick..."

Might we sub-consciously take on female posturing as a means of being less threatening to White people?

"[We've been talking about] dissociating from being a Black man...The answer is love...What is it like to love myself...How does it feel to deal with that racist White person following me in the store as I love myself as a Black man?...But, I can't like you or love you or be down with you if I don't love me...If I am going to really be self-determining, then I can't be embarrassed by anything anybody else does...Or demonize them for not being as I am..."

"We don't always determine the things that we do...Do I sometimes take care of White people in my office?...And, the answer may be yes...But, that's after I've kicked their ass...That's why it's important to have Black books and art...When I heard Cleo say that we might want to ascend out of Blackness into gayness, it took me two days to process that, because as a child, I grew up knowing Langston Hughes [poetry by heart, among a myriad of other instances of Black brilliance]...So, the idea of attempting to ascend out of Blackness [took me a minute]..."

"[It's weird when I'm in a group of Black men and] nobody is identifying as Trans, but every other word is 'She'...'Let her be her'...We need to take this conversation outside the room...Unless we're looking on each other sexually, we don't talk to each other...We make each other invisible...A lot of [the reason] why some homosexual men regard each other as 'she' is because it's [too] painful being a Black man..."

"It happened to me the other day...A friend took me to a matinee of a show, and during intermission I was walking across the lobby and this big, imposing Brother stood near the door and as I came near, he averted his eyes...And, I said, 'How we doin'?'...And, he beamed at me and said 'Hi!'...In fact, he wanted to speak, but he was so used to not seeing and connecting to what he wants to see and connect with, that [his disconnect] was unconscious..."

"We have to remember that to be a Black man means to be lynched, to be whipped, to be castrated...Homosexual men operate out of a '5-F' construct...Fight, Fuck, Flee, Flirt or Friend...Some of us resent Black women because she can have his baby...get property...move his legacy along...And they are seen as competition...There's a reason why I can idolize Beyonce, who can get on the stage for a couple of hours and so easily have the things I can't seem to...I can put her back in a box...Or, I can play at [being] her to the point of buffoonery in acting out my resentment of her..."

As same gender loving men, can we honor our female and male energies equally?

"All of us are given that charge as Gatekeepers [the West African shamanic role]...I don't hate women...I am grateful to women...It is because of them that we were created..."