Choosing to be in the prison service as a Prison Governor was not typical for a woman 1978.   I think it has been more common for women graduates to join the graduate scheme over the years.  I found myself doing a Psychology Degree in Hull, with a view to becoming an Educational Psychologist when, luckily, it was suggested that I apply for Management as a backup.

While doing my Degree course, I got involved with a social work group visiting a Borstal, then I also started to get interested in deviance. I wondered why people break the law.  I had always been interested in why people break the law.

Did you have any role models while you were young?

Both my parents were role models; my mother for her hard work and energy.  She was a pioneer in the 1950s and '60s, in that she had gone into the Methodist Church in a high position as Lay Preacher, which was rare at that time. 

My father, for bravery as a conscientious objector, and I inherited his love of music and his gentle humour.

My father had been a Social Worker and a Probation Officer.  He found Probation too authoritative, and he was quite alarmed to find his daughter going into the Prison Service.  He said to me, and I'll never forget it. "Don't break their spirit."

My third role model has to be my Latin Teacher, Miss Bromley.  She was fun and, for us at 13/14 year olds, she taught with energy, eccentricity and talent. 

Most memorable event in your life?

That's not an easy question.  If I think hard, I can remember a lot of times in my life.

Clearly I remember having my children; that is such a life-changing, dramatic and triumphal thing to do.  Truly celebratory and wonderful. So, yes, I remember those.

Most surprising event

Being a Domestic Abuse Volunteer. I wasn't prepared for the joy and privilege that I feel working with victims of domestic abuse.

When were you first aware that women are treated differently?

I wasn't aware of women being treated differently because I went to a very confident girls school, very empowering, and when I was in Primary I was a high achiever, so I was never really aware of boys or men.  The same for University.

Then I joined one of the most macho institutions that you could ever imagine. The prison service, by definition, has to be quite male in that 95% of prisoners then, and now, are male.

Therefore, maleness is the predominant gender and most of the staff tend to be male; you enter a male world.

I don't actually ever feel like a female, I am a just a Prison governor or an Operator, because those are the skills and abilities that people are relating to. But having my children was a great and memorable achievement; such a life-changing triumphal thing to do, and there were no negatives.  Truly celebratory and joyful.

Is prison different for women?

This would be two days worth of seminars of difference, but to cut it down neatly.

There are two days' worth of seminars on the differences!  But, to cut it down neatly, the main difference is in the nature and profile of women prisoners compared to male prisoners.

However, it is a different because of the history that we have inherited in the treatment of female incarcerated people, in a more caring, but almost infantilizing way than men.

For a long time, male prisoners have been in prison uniform whereas female prisoners were allowed to wear their own clothes, which can give a sense of identity.  This has only changed in recent history.  But wearing their own clothes brings it's own difficulties, such as the competition over owning designer jeans.

Additionally, women's prisons are in very short supply, and there are going to be even less of them soon.  So you are more likely, as a family member of a woman prisoner, to have travel a long way for visits. Take Swansea, for instance, if you're female and sentenced in Swansea, you will be sent to a prison 70-80 miles away in England.  As a male, you will probably be placed in prison just a mere 1.5 miles away.  This geographical difference poses a very real problem; how to keep women prisoners supported by their family members, when they incarcerated so far away, in a different country?

I have found that women react to being in prison in a very much more emotional way, and women staff also become emotional.  So, the bringing of male staff into women's prisons, and women staff into male prisons, has had a very healthy outcome.  Prisoners have been able express themselves in a much more reasonable way.  A bunch of men will not express themselves emotionally to each another.  Female staff are able to get men to express their emotions and, conversely, male staff can go into women prisons and calm every thing down, a little bit.

What one change would you make to the justice system?

Before reaching prison, there's a whole process that needs to be scrutinised and a study to be undertaken around the Courts' decision-making, sentencing and remand.

What is Restorative justice?

Restorative Justice is a different way of looking at the harms people cause each other.

Its roots are embedded in many different areas of global history and philosophy, and it brings us up to date with the fact that there is a growing movement in this country, as in other countries, for the opportunity to have a voice.  If not for offenders, then at least for the victims.  It is proving to be incredibly healing, particularly for victims, who previously may not have had that opportunity in the criminal justice journey.

Restorative processes, bring those harmed by crime or conflict, and those responsible for the harm, into communication, enabling all those affected to play a part in trying to deal with that harm and plan positively for the future.

So that's the kind of global overview you can have using Restorative Justice in schools, workplace, community care and institutions as well as in the Justice System.  I do not believe that it's better than criminal retribution, it's not always a viable alternative to incarceration, but it is certainly a marvellous adjunct and, in some cases, it could do instead of criminalisation.

For me personally, discovering it, as a Prison Governor it has brought wonderful revelations.

As a result of this, there were many stories of transformation.  Out of that came a Restorative Justice meeting between a victim and an offender. A film was made, which I saw and that's how I got into victims of domestic violence.  [Click here to see the clip on YouTube.]

I now believe in its power as a double whammy. Proven to reduce post traumatic stress in victims and proven to slow down re-offending in criminals

Would you call yourself a feminist?

Yeas. I'm not confident about it.  It's a very, very small "f".

However I don't believe that women in any way should dominate anything.

But equality is a tenant of feminism, I believe in equality.

What is the most important thing you have achieved?

To have been in charge of 3 prisons and come out the other end alive.  It's physically and psychologically an enormous responsibility.  I liken it to the Captain of a ship, or Head Teacher of a school. But, as a School Head Teacher, there is the support of  governors who are making executive decisions for you.  But I had the responsibility of life and death on my shoulders.

Core values

When I say, "I'm going to do something", I am committed and remain honest to that. It is very important, and something you learn on day one in prison.  But, that can be very hard sometimes, because other things get in the way. 

However, now that much of my work is with victims of domestic violence who are already feeling some ways very mistrustful, it is all the more important that they have someone they can trust to remain honest.

I also believe in the power of a smile.  A smile has a positive effect on both the smiler, and the smiled at.

The most surprising event in my life was...

as a Domestic Abuse Volunteer, I wasn't prepared for the joy and privilege that I feel working with victims of domestic abuse.

Any significant men in your life?

Of course the men in my family.

I've met a lot of guys in the Prison Service who I've really admired.  Those people with exactly the right mix of quiet authority, personal bravery and brilliant instinct in dealing with very challenging situations.  Then I came to the realisation that I would never be quiet, and I would never have what they have.

When a woman steps out and addresses a bunch of angry prisoners or 500 staff, it is naïve as a woman in authority, to not to realise that, for the receivers of your message, there are things going on in their mind; a range of other things going on.

Advice to young women.

1) I actually feel very strongly that women shouldn't be encouraged to take up things that have been hitherto male domains, just because they've been male domains.

2) This whole thing of "you can't have it all", I would certainly say, "Just forget it; just go with the flow".  My children were my achievement, the final piece of the jigsaw of being a woman.

3) I would say, if you're going to be true to yourself, follow something that makes your eyes shine, and you know it does, because you can feel your eyes shine when you're talking about it or doing it.