Deepak Chopra: Strict Darwinian evolution, the dominant theory for more than a century, is based on two ideas-random mutation and natural selection. That means that first you have a random mutation and then some of those mutations that stand out will, on the basis of sheer numbers, naturally be selected as part of the evolutionary process. So basically, it's a numbers game. There's nothing purposeful happening.

DC: Yes, in epigenetics, the activity of the gene changes, but the gene itself doesn't change-we're not talking about genetic mutations.  

DC: Random suggests that it's unpredictable. If I go to Grand Central Station in New York City and see everybody going here and there, it seems totally random. And yet if I go every day, I will see that there is indeed a distribution pattern- approximately so many people are going to Philadelphia, so many are going to Boston, so many are going to Washington, D.C. So there's an element of predictability that comes from looking at the distribution patterns.

DC: When I look at an object-right now, I'm looking at the Empire State Building-what is coming to my eyes are photons, what's going to my brain is an electrical current, and what's happening in my brain is that the gene activity is being modulated and then chemicals are being released. But I'm not experiencing that. I'm experiencing the Empire State Building. What's happening in my brain does not explain how I experience a three-dimensional reality in space and time that has color and sound and texture and taste and smell. The electrochemical activity does not show me how I experience anything-including things like insight, intuition, imagination, creativity, love, compassion, joy, anger, frustration, guilt, depression, or shame.

DC: The problem is that we're looking for a physical explanation, and it could be the other way around-that consciousness is fundamental and what we experience as the mental and perceptual experience of the world is actually a modified form of consciousness. In other words, there's only consciousness, and the physical world and your mental experiences are modified aspects of consciousness. So when I say the surface of the rock is hard, or the feather feels soft, or this object is red, or I'm having an exhilarating dream, or I am in love, these are some modulations or qualities of consciousness.

If all experience happens in consciousness, then what we see as gene activity is just images of a process in consciousness. What I wrote in Super Genes (and in a new book called Creative Cosmos I'm currently writing with physicist Menas Kafatos) is that the universe is actually a manifestation of consciousness-and then so is the brain, so is the body, so is a rock, so is an atom, so is a subatomic particle, and so is a galaxy. That's the short answer.  

DC: If the physical body is nothing other than the metabolism of experience in consciousness, we have to radically revisit what is termed the "hard problem of consciousness" (how we perceive qualities of sensations- that the feather is soft, for example). We also have to take another look at the Darwinian mechanistic explanations and say that not only is consciousness the driver of evolution, but it's all there is. Consciousness conceives, governs, constructs, and becomes the physical universe. Your real identity may be that you are a formless being having an experience of form that includes your own brain and body. 

DC: Fundamental reality-whether you call it the soul, the spirit, or even God-is not physical. It's formless and timeless. The source of everything that has form has its source in something that does not exist in space and time. 

DC: We've seen that not only is there a slowing down but there's also a reversal of aging at a cellular level during meditation. We're also finding that the genes that cause self-regulation (or healing) are up-regulated, so they become active-while the genes that are associated with inflammation (which is connected to many illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, infections, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, and many types of cancer) are down-regulated, becoming less active. 

DC: The subject sits quietly and observes their breath for a few minutes, then they do a few minutes of self-reflection (Who am I? What do I want? What is my purpose? What am I grateful for?), and then they go through a process of very slowly repeating their different identities (I am Deepak. I am a doctor. I am a father.). And then they go into a mantra meditation for about 25 minutes before finally sitting with body awareness. It's called Primordial Sound Meditation, and it comes from the ancient Vedic tradition in India.

DC: Yes, any form of contemplative self-inquiry or reflection influences your genetic activity in a healthy direction through epigenetic mechanisms. In fact, many researchers are now looking at something called bioelectric medicine. If you stimulate a major nerve called the vagus nerve (which passes through several important organs), it decreases inflammation and sometimes gets rid of diseases like bronchial asthma or arthritis. But you can do the same thing through yoga, breathing techniques, tai chi, or qigong, for example. We can measure at cellular and genetic levels how your body responds to these practices that have been part of wisdom traditions for thousands of years. You can also get this response through what's called energy medicine or biofield medicine. 

DC: Absolutely. We're also finding that genes do not work on a one-to- one basis. They act as networks that regulate other networks of genes. For example, only five percent of disease-related gene mutations are fully penetrant, which means you can't stop them. There are almost a hundred genes involved in Alzheimer's disease, but only three or four have a one-to-one correspondence-meaning everyone who has one of those genes will get Alzheimer's disease. With the other 96 or 97, you may or may not develop the disease.

DC: Yes, the gene is the brain of the cell. This microbiome cross talks with the human genome and responds to things like emotions, exercise, sleep, yoga, breathing techniques, and so on. So if you change your experience in a holistic manner so that you are focused on having a joyful and energetic body, a loving and compassionate heart, a calm and restful mind, and a lightness and joy in your being, all that will have a dramatic effect on gene activity- not just the human genes but the microbial genes.

DC: One hundred percent. All consciousness is transcendent. It's just that we are experiencing it as the material world with form and color and solidity. The evolutionary part of consciousness is moving in the direction of knowing itself. This idea has been, in different ways, part of every ancient wisdom tradition.  

DC: Again, 100 percent. Consciousness is the immeasurable potential of all that was, all that is, and all that will ever be. There is nothing harder than consciousness. It assumes the form of a subatomic particle or a galaxy or a human brain, but all of it is still nothing other than consciousness. 

DC: If a cow gets zapped by an electric fence, then the next two generations of cows will avoid the fence even though they've never been exposed to that electrical shock themselves. Researchers showed something similar by exposing mice to a very pleasant smell like wintergreen and then giving them mild electric shocks. The subsequent two generations of mice were afraid of the smell even though they were not shocked. A study came out this past year from Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City showing that the children of Holocaust survivors have epigenetic markers associated with trauma that influence gene activity.

DC: Right. We never have any emotions in isolation. Because emotions are a result of interaction with other people (and even with pets), a whole new discipline is emerging called interactive neurobiology that says we not only influence but also regulate each other's emotions. This is becoming even more potent with the Internet and the global brain. So for example, I could text somebody in Africa an emoticon that says hugs and kisses, and they get a dopamine hit right there. You read something about what ISIS is doing in the Middle East, and it affects your biology. So it's becoming clearer that consciousness cannot be squeezed into the volume of a body in the span of a lifetime.  

DC: Yes, I think conscious evolution could lead to a healthier, more sustainable, happier planet if we recognize that the power is all within us and in how we treat each other.