At Friday's Black Men's Xchange-New York dialogue, Brothers focused on The Gift of Same Gender Lovingness.  Questions included:

How do you feel about your sexuality?

"Where I find it sometimes a burden is in the avenues that straight people [are able] to take...If I want to start a family, I have to [use a surrogate or adopt] or employ some non-traditional means...Not being able to fully express myself if I see somebody [I find attractive] in the Bronx...He can't just come up to me and say, 'I like you, and I'd like to talk to you..."

{Facilitator asks, "Is that true?...Can you not fully express yourself when you see someone you find attractive?..."}

"[It is] a burden when you don't have the freedom to express [your feelings]...walking down the street...other than the Village...Flatbush Avenue...Crown Heights...Why should I feel like I have to be hindered...I don't have the right to hold a man's hand [in public]..."

{Facilitator asks, "You don't?..."}

"I don't think I've ever been in the closet...I didn't know what they were talking about when I was a kid [the euphemisms for homosexual]...The older I get, the more comfortable I am in my sexuality...in my rhythm...I'm never not going to be me again because you have a problem with it...I have to live with myself twenty-four hours a day..."

"I'm not able to express sexual attraction because one or the other of us may feel uncomfortable..."

"For me to kiss another man in public, I got to be in love with you..."

"I have definitely evolved in relationship to my sexuality...As a teen [I was conflicted]...[Now,]I expect other people to respect who I am, not what I do...I am a man first...I love being gay..."

{Facilitator says, "You said, 'I expect other people to respect who I am, not what I do.' Do you respect what you do?"} "Yes." {"What you do sexually?"} "Yes."

"I have been in the military...travelled around the world...I was a police officer for ten years...That's when you have to deal with your sexuality...A gay guy from Buffalo came down [and joined the force] and thought he was going to be able to be out, and it would be accepted...He found out [otherwise]..."

"In my youth I was very uncomfortable with [my sexuality]...It had to do with not having any role models...As I aged, I got better partners who helped me to express who I was...Once I was able to connect with other brothers like myself at organizations like GMAD and BMX, I relaxed into my sexuality..."

"I'm very comfortable at the present moment...[I have] no problem holding hands walking down the street and kissing a man at the airport...As a masculine SGL Brother...It's more of a political action for me...to demonstrate my affection for another man...[It's] a political statement..."

"I become a bit more at unease when I'm around hetero Brothers...Not being viewed as weak [is a concern for me]...I think about the different roles [ascribed to us]...top, bottom, butch, fem...How comfortable am I really...I want to be able to be able to wear a sarong and some Timbalands..."

{Facilitator says, "I'm going to take a pass at this question...For me, [I feel] the same [way about my sexuality] as I feel about my Blackness...I feel it's a wonderful gift from the universe...I remember at fourteen, when there was only one phone in the kitchen, my calls changed from all girls changed to calls from all boys...It f _ _ ed my mother up...she was freaking out...But, I was like Dorothy going to Oz...I sucked a dick, and all at once, I saw color!..."}

"Outrage is what I feel [in relationship to my sexuality]...When you have to grow up dreaming someone else's dream...To be a reaction to the actions of someone else...For me, It's not okay to kiss [another man] on the street...Half of my life has been spent hiding who I am...As I learn to live with my sexuality, [it has become a little better]...Because you have put laws saying it's not okay [for me to be who I am]...It's an outrage...While I am sort of okay [now,] I was a weird kid...I hope younger people [have an easier time of it]...It takes away my soul...as a whole, I am sort of a hybrid [half myself, and half people's expectations]...You're trying to kill me...If I jump and grow wings doesn't change the fact that you tried to kill me..."

"I think about the ancestors...and what they endured and struggled for [so that I can be]..."

"I share some of that anger [expressed by the previous participant]...We don't have the right to marry...I want more than just the right to be able to express my affection, I want the legal sanction as well...For a long time, I had separated my sexuality from my spirituality...[I don't any more and I want to celebrate it]..."

"About kissing on the street, [I live with] the fear of being beat down...I grew up with internalized [anti]homosexuality...Bible thumpers...I hated myself and didn't feel worthy...I wouldn't have chosen this sexuality...In Uganda yesterday, somebody got killed...[I now know] I'm worthy of love...I only dated girls because I knew I didn't want people talking about me...I liked the girls but I always hoped we wouldn't get to the point where we [had to go all the way]...As I grow, I know I'm a beautiful person made in God's image...Sexuality is about more than sex..."

{Facilitator says, "I'm pissed off that my mother loved my brothers and sisters more than me...But, I had to let go of that shit...And, I now know that she's sorry...I went to a family reunion at Christmas and shared with the family about BMX and that I'm same gender loving...And while some of them were stunned...I knew they respected me...That's what we have to do...Start with our families...and then our communities...being open and proud of our sexuality..."}

"I would like to thank all of you guys who are older for going through what you've gone through...You guys are the pavement...You have contributed to young adults like me being able to be flamboyant and coming out earlier..."

"I've gone though a lot of confusion about having my gender identity mixed up with my sexuality...Growing up without men...I was called a sissy...My strong emphasis was like my aunt...and, my [quiet] emphasis was like my grandmother...Working in a sexual therapy clinic with a lot of men who were experiencing sexual dysfunction, I learned to ask a different question than, 'How do you feel about your sexuality?'...It was, 'How does your sexuality feel to you?'..."

{Facilitator says, "That's a brilliant question.  How does your sexuality feel to you?"}

"It feels good..."

"All that trying to be with women [said] how I felt about my sexuality..."

"I had a war going on inside myself about my sexuality...But, for [getting some] counseling, and coming here the war has ended..."

What are some benefits of being same gender loving?

"I find myself being more sensitive to men and women when they speak to me..."

"I get to show the beauty we are when my man and I hold each other..."

"I like the sensibility that I have..."

SGL people teach society that deviance is in the eye of the beholder, not the one being beheld..."

"I have always been able to be a moderator...We are able to create our own paths...our own definitions of masculinity..."

"For being SGL I have had to go through some pretty tough shit...I wouldn't be who I am [but for that shit]...We get these stereotypes about femininity...But, everybody in this room is tougher [than the average man] because we have been [tempered by the fire]..."

"Gatekeepers are a gift to the planet..."

Which SGL s/heroes do you most admire?  And, why?

"Langston Hughes...Apart from his having been such a great poet, I think about the life he didn't have...At one point, he wanted to commit suicide...I was there..."

"Bayard Rustin..."

"James Baldwin..."

"Ellen DeGeneres...She fights for us..."

{Facilitator says, "Ellen DeGeneres doesn't identify as same gender loving...Why are there no out SGL celebrities?...}

"Because they don't have a home...We have a home here..."

"No one wants to be shot down...Your career would be pretty much over...Particularly if you're a rapper..."

"It's our responsibility to create that safety net [for them]..."

"One of the vestiges of Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome is a fragility...a brittleness of masculinity...The definition of homosexuality is not solid enough..."

"[There is theory called] The Iceberg Model...When there is an event, most of what is happening is not seen...You have to look at the patterns...The patterns involve structures...The absence of political power...Mental models...What we think and believe that we don't say...or admit...Same gender loving...How do we demonstrate that we are loving?...We talk about having been at war or in conflict with our sexuality...It's not just what comes out of our mouths...How do we demonstrate that we are loving?..."

{Facilitator says, "Yes...How indeed, do we demonstrate love?...For ourselves?...For each other?...Beyond anything we might claim, exclaim or declare about having come to terms with our sexuality...or our Africanness...There is a reason why, all our protestations about our desire to be able to express our affection for each other publically...And to be able to have our love sanctioned by our community and by society...Our White homosexual counterparts are making strides along those lines, by the way, in case you haven't noticed...Don't Ask, Don't Tell has been overturned...Same-sex marriage is the law of the land in six states and counting...And, there's a reason why we're not out there amid the throngs of White gay protesters urging those changes we profess to want forward...It is very true...that chief among the vestiges of Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome is a frightfully fragile sense of manhood...In every freedom struggle we have waged on these shores...From Abolition...To Desegregation and Civil Rights...To Black Power and Black Consciousness...At the heart of these have been a Black manhood restoration campaign... A Black manhood resurrection campaign...Our manhood which was stolen from us as slaves...Which we have yet to fully restore, Barack Obama notwithstanding...In a patriarchal society where manhood is valued in terms of aggression and domination...A patriarchal society in which, part and parcel of patriarchy is misogyny, which is the fear and hatred of women...So, when we come along talking about same gender loving...they say, 'Get outta' here with that homo mess!...Messing up our Black manhood restoration!'...And all the movements which have followed...from the Feminist Movement to the Labor Movement, to Gay Liberation, have been patterned after our liberation movements...Chief among the things they learned from us was that, to be self determining, you must name your self...Kujichagulia [the second principle of Kwanzaa]...'I  will name myself, define myself, create for myself and speak for myself, rather than being named, defined, created or spoken for by others'...That's where the identification 'gay' came from...From that understanding...That identification, founded on European principles and symbolism, affirms the coiners as inheritors of their citizenship rights here...And, we are all grown men and can identify as we will...But, if we will be affirmed as the Africans who we are, we would do well to consider identifications that do that...That is how we might begin to demonstrate our love of ourselves and respect for ourselves...And it is true that it is our responsibility to create a safety net for our SGL Bothers and Sisters who have insinuated themselves into pop culture...into the limelight...Our White gay counterparts can afford to 'come out'...They not only have a safety net...They have empires!...Right here in New York...They have..."}

"Chelsea..."  "Fire Island..." "They have San Francisco..."  "Province Town"

{Facilitator says, "Key West and countless other bastions of gayness...Empires...That is, places where they own land, and properties and businesses and control the means of production...They even have a Mafia now...If you think that's a myth, consider what happened to Isaiah Washington...The way they have been able to create these empires is because, along with their Whiteness comes entitlements, their gayness notwithstanding...But even more importantly, they have entitlement consciousness which impels them to fight for what they know they deserve...If we will begin to create our own empires, it will be because we muster the courage to acknowledge what we deserve... become self determining...redefine manhood...as we redefine ourselves..."}

At a recent Black Men's Xchange-New York forum participants looked at their relationship to shame in a dialogue titled, Shame Off You through the following lenses:

What is shame?

"When you do something that someone makes you feel bad about..."

"A corrective process...A society, through its mores, pushes people in a certain direction..."

"The external creation of guilt, as distinct from internal guilt..."

"A form of embarrassment..."

{Facilitator reads dictionary definition, "'A painful sense of guilt or degradation caused by consciousness of guilt or anything degrading, unworthy, or immodest. That which brings reproach; a disgrace; A sensitiveness or susceptibility to humiliation.'" Some key concepts for our consideration might include guilt, degrading, disgrace and humiliation..."}

Where does shame come from?

"Not having things [about you] affirmed..."

"Stereotypes and living in relation to those stereotypes [about our] sexuality...femininity...[My parents said] 'You gonna' be a faggot like your brother'...My brother wore lipstick...They saw him as abnormal...feminine...[a man] who portrayed as a woman..."

"[To be] Masculine [meant being] tough and aggressive for my father...Out of his own shame [that] he felt...That scared me...made me afraid to come out...I looked at the level of education my parents had...They were from Montserrat...There was shame in [homosexuality] there..."

"[Shame was] passed down as an inheritance in my family..."

"Shame comes from within...It can be imposed [from without]..."

"It's something you have to adopt [take on] like a suit of clothes..."

"Can someone make you feel shame?..."

"Shame is external, and to be ashamed is an internal [experience or process]..."

"I identified with that collective process of sanctions in my culture..."

"Shame is used as a control mechanism...If you strayed from that script, [my mother] could shame you..."

"Themes [are] emerging...Being conscious of something that would bring shame...behaviors or events...[and]shame producing children...The shaming of one person by another [potentially] produces all kinds of other shame-based behaviors..."

{Facilitator says, "So, then, shame is a learned behavior...We empower others to shame us...We learn, as someone put it, to take on shame like a suit of clothes which we wear in order to take care of others...It is a means of external control...that is, a means by which we authorize others to control us..."

"Empowerment is also a learned behavior..."

{Facilitator says, "Empowerment as a learned behavior... That's  never occurred to me...I wonder though...I think of babies...Babies are empowered...Have you ever dealt with a toddler?...It doesn't occur to them that they can't have or do whatever occurs to them to have or do ...And, if you try to block them from doing or having whatever they want, you may have hell to pay for it...Among the first words they learn is, 'No'...Frequently, they don't even use it appropriately...That is, they may be saying no when they mean yes...But, 'No' is a way of their asserting themselves and perhaps, their efforts at control..."}

What societal beliefs might naturally lead African Americans to feel shame?

"Slavery...The selling of bodies, castrations...was not a proud moment..."

"Regarding slavery...As a young Black man, when I'm with White people, I can feel shame...They did what they pleased with us...Treated us like we weren't even human...Slavery took on an evolutionary process...My mother was not a slave, but she picked cotton, and so, when I'm around White people her age, I can feel shame..."

"In my work as a teacher with young people who are trying to get to higher ed level...I am working in a system that sometimes shames them...The students ask [me,] 'Why aren't you rich?'...They're differentiating between what kind of slaves we are...I am sometimes ashamed of the fact that I can leave [the system I'm teaching in]...[I think] I've come here to get you out of this prison...I live here out of choice...You live here out of no choice...You don't know you're trapped...Sometimes there is shame in privilege..." {Facilitator says, "That sounds a little like what they call survivor's guilt..."}..."Yeah...I guess it is..."

What are various ways that shame manifests itself in our behavior?

"My father was a presser and he had heart attacks and he would be in those emergency waiting rooms all day long until he got some insurance..."

"The social class system involves different levels of slavery..."

"I had to stay on my son about not feeling ashamed about being smarter than the other kids..."

"A lot of us feel our Africanness is seen as less than...[On] commercial television [for example] our women have to have straight hair...our stories are not valued...[are regarded as] not good enough to project in the media...On the news, when the Black guys [newscasters] banter, it's divorced from Africanness...They talk about golf...[When we're shown on the news] it's something bad...criminals..."

"Shame is like a moving target...If shame is a vehicle of control, as society changes so must it...In the fifties, to have a child out of wedlock was shameful...Now, as [recognition of] different family structures [have become more the norm, single parenting is not seen as shameful]...[But for us] incarcerated family members...our speech...we use language differently...our dress...hair...[all are used to make us feel ashamed of ourselves]...How often do we avoid each other in social or workplace situations...our religion...As we continue to grow as a people, the target has to change..."

"Even our names we're given at birth...Boquisha as opposed to Charlene...I had a friend who had a beautiful African-sounding name, but she wouldn't use it...When we studied African history together in college, she was no longer ashamed of her name..."

Is shame always unhealthy? If so, how do we rid ourselves of it?

"Shame is not necessarily a negative thing...If I'm thinking of hurting you, and the thought makes me feel ashamed...it's not negative..."

Are you currently ashamed of anything? If so, what?

"Until nine years ago, before I came to BMX-NY, I profoundly hated myself...My point of reference for our history was slavery..."

"Dark-skinned people are starting to disappear from television...They've shamed us so much that we did everything to get away from looking like ourselves...[even] the music is sounding homogenized..."

"We are being encouraged to ascend out of Blackness..."

"My grandmother was Naraganset Indian, but she looked Black and I remember her asking, 'What is going to happen to [my cousins,] Renee and David?  They are too dark for life to work out for them..."

"I remember in the gay construct another form of shaming is assuming that because people are out, that they've no private life...In mixed company I've had people ask me about whether or not I performed a particular act with a particular person..."

"There is a non-existent line between discretion, privacy and shame...[When I'm out in public with my man, he may say,] 'Don't touch my hand like this because they might...I see it as a way of remaining in slavery...Opting in to shame...So that I don't have to be responsible...It's one thing to feel shame from outside your race, and another to feel it from within...I remember people making fun of [the size of] my nose [so much] I was actually considering going under the knife...I'm glad I talked about it with a counselor and with the people here..."

How can we address and reduce issues of shame for the future generation of SGL folk?

"[By taking] personal responsibility and being self-determining..."

"[By observing] the Kawaida [Kwanzaa] questions as tools for personal responsibility..."Who am I?"..."Am I really who I say I am?"..."Am I all that I ought to be?...As I answer these questions truthfully, shame is less a factor in my life..."

"A family member raped my cousin when she was thirteen and people were pulled out of my life...My family was ripped apart...Because of the statutory rape, my cousin [who had committed the rape] didn't know who he was... and I wondered about the kind of lives people had had since then...and what we can make of it now if we come together and deal with it constructively...I shared with my cousin that I'm SGL...He shared that, back in Haiti, he'd slept under tables, worked on ships...He was used [sexually] as a cabin boy by people of privilege until he could make his way here...Being same gender loving puts us in a position to understand shame in a way that other people can't even broach..."

{Facilitator says, "Thank you for sharing that...It calls to mind a concept we've alluded to,  but haven't really focused on...Stigma...Stigma is a triangular process...At one point is shame, another is guilt, and the third is fear...So, as people have said, in order to control us, society sanctions behaviors and ways of being that extend beyond the status quo as disgraceful...That's the realm of stigma ...If I feel, say or do something that is stigmatized, I feel ashamed and guilty, and become afraid to express whatever it is, and repress it...Which, over time, if it is natural to me, will tend to make me neurotic, and possibly even ill...That's why we Black people tend to have more high blood pressure, heart disease, strokes and the like than other folks...And, at the very least, being a prisoner of stigma cuts me off from my power...my power to change what is into something richer and truer and more beautiful...my power as a Gatekeeper...In indigenous African culture, Gatekeepers live on the margins of the society, and their role is...when there is crisis in the community... taking cues from nature and the ancestors, to restore balance and harmony to the community...So, it is incumbent upon us to acknowledge to ourselves anything we may be feeling shame, guilt or fear about and muster the courage to relinquish that stuff so that we can be such powerful Gatekeeepers as we can be..."}