Monday Morning Mojo

Talking to the Front Line

While writing my bestseller, Getting Change Right, I had a conversation with my former boss, Jim Wolfensohn. Jim began his work as president of the World Bank with an ambitious change agenda.

When he arrived, he found an organization that was considered by many heads of state to be a necessary but bothersome bureaucracy that was almost irrelevant. He wanted to change that image and establish the World Bank as the preeminent source of knowledge and experience, the first choice a country would turn to when it needed help with its development.

He knew the expertise, know-how, and experience of World Bank staff were exemplary. He also recognized that knowledge was not proprietary to the World Bank. It resided everywhere, including among the poor, the World Bank’s beneficiaries. He made it a point to listen to people inside and outside the organization: up, down, and outside the hierarchy. His willingness to include people outside the formal channels sometimes created consternation. Nonetheless, he was highly effective.

JW: I visited about 120 countries where I did not just go to the palaces. I spent the first couple of days in the field before I would ever see the president. That was my usual request: “Get me out in the field first, and then I’ll go see the president.”

I was not going to say, “Mr. President, I have just come from Washington.” Instead I wanted to say, “I have just come from Washington, and I’ve been out to see the schools in your countryside. This is what is happening there. What do you think of that?”

SK: What did you get from your meetings with local people?

JW: Meeting ordinary people was powerful. I would have illiterate parents come up to me and tell me that they were keeping their child, boy or girl, in the school so he could get his qualifications and the tools to improve his life. That cannot help but move you. That is what gave me the passion for this job and this work.

My job was not just an administrative job. It was about people in poverty whose main vision was to give their children an opportunity. That is what gave me the understanding and passion I have for my work. I have had hundreds, if not thousands, of conversations like that. It changes you. You learn what is happening on the ground.

S: You made a concerted effort to learn directly from people on the ground.

JW: To bring about change, you cannot just speak with leaders. You have to speak with people at all levels. They have to feel you understand them. And you have to understand the different levels of change that they are serving.

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