God's Potters

  Interview with Jackson W.
  Carroll, author of God's
  Potters (July 2006)    
 

1. You refer to clergy as "God's potters." Why?

Jackson W. Carroll: The image comes from II Corinthians where Paul describes Christians and, by extension, churches, as "clay jars" through which God's extraordinary power may be experienced. Paul assumes that God acts through the ordinary processes of church life. If this is so, then pastors can be thought of as "God's potters," who, through their leadership, shape congregational clay jars so that they reveal rather than hide God's power. In the book, I reflect on ways in which excellent ministry and pastoral leadership can be called forth, nurtured, and supported.
 

3. What was the most surprising thing you learned about "God's Potters?"

Jackson W. Carroll: I was most surprised by the high level of commitment to their calling and the work satisfaction that clergy expressed. Contrary to popular opinion, most clergy are deeply committed to their calling, do not wish to leave pastoral ministry, and are satisfied with most aspects of their work. I was much encouraged by a number of other recent studies of Christian and Jewish clergy that echoed my results. 
 

4. What are some of the major issues that have a negative effect on a pastor's commitment and satisfaction?

Jackson W. Carroll: I found five things to be most troubling: inadequate compensation, especially for those in small and many mid-sized congregations; unresolved congregational conflict; stress from congregational demands and challenges which prevent pastors from having quality family time or time for recreation and renewal; the experience of being on call as pastor 24/7; and feeling lonely and isolated.
 

5. How do these and other problems affect the clergy's physical or emotional health?

Jackson W. Carroll: Though I didn't focus much on clergy health, I found, as with commitment and satisfaction, that most clergy reported that they were in good to excellent health, both physically and emotionally. Nonetheless, the difficulties that pastors experience about their role and stress from congregational demands are among the strongest factors that have negative effects on their health. 
 

6. Lay people sometimes joke that their pastor only works one hour a week. What does your study show?

Jackson W. Carroll: The weekly average is in the low fifties, with Catholic priests reporting the highest average at fifty-six hours per week. Not only do pastors lead in worship and preach, most also teach, provide pastoral care, visit shut-ins and prospective members, spend considerable time attending congregational meetings and administering the church's program (especially true for Catholic priests), and participate in denominational and broader community activities.
 

7. Is pastoral work more difficult today than it was earlier in our nation's history?

Jackson W. Carroll: It is hard to make the case that a pastor's work is more difficult, but I strongly believe that it is very different in many important respects. Changes in the broader culture affect congregational life and pastoral work: rising levels of education among laity that have raised laity's expectations of their pastor; the two-earner household, with a majority of women - who used to be the mainstay of church volunteering - now working outside the home; the growing religious and ethnic diversity characteristic of American society; religious individualism that has led to a consumer mentality when it comes to decisions about church involvement; and often unresolved congregational and denominational conflict, to name just a few. 
 

8. What did you find out about the characteristics of excellent ministry?

Jackson W. Carroll: Much has been written in recent leadership and business literature about excellence. Some of it is applicable to the church and ministry, but too much of this literature makes the "bottom line" -size, growth, and profitability - the major criteria of excellence. Based on considerable discussion in our Pulpit and Pew project and in our focus groups, I emphasize the kind of excellence that we see in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus - what we came to call "cruciform" or "resurrecting" excellence. Jesus' manner of life provides a norm for both the ministry of congregations as well as pastoral leadership. How such excellence is expressed, however, must be contextualized to take into account the peculiar challenges a congregation and pastor face in the time and place in which they minister. In God's Potters, I discuss several qualities that I believe are characteristic of clergy who exhibit excellence in their ministry: resiliency, agility, trust, staying connected, and the practice of lifelong learning.
 

9. What is needed if we are to better nurture and support excellent pastoral ministry?

Jackson W. Carroll: Someone recently commented that too many pastors are "sadly ordinary" and that we need to renew our efforts to nurture and support excellence, not only in those pastors already in ministry, but also in those who are yet to come. I wholeheartedly agree, and I believe that doing so will require a synergy between several parts of the church, each contributing to the task in important ways. This includes congregations, theological schools, denominations, and clergy themselves. In a final chapter of my book, I discuss some of the important contributions that each of these must make if we are to nurture and support excellent pastors, pastors who can shape their congregational clay jars so that they show forth God's extraordinary power in their life together and their witness in the world.