News From Gypsy Vanner Horse Society

Vanner Banner: Can you tell us your farm name and how that came about? "We originally used the farm name Heritage Classic Gypsy Vanners. At the time, Classic referred to a size range, but the size descriptions were dropped soon after we began our business. Our family had bred llamas for about 25 years by then and there was a newer farm with many quality llamas called Superior Farm. I liked that name and felt that in order to call ourselves "superior" I would want to add "not a boast a promise". We have had some negative feed back about our name but we are still happy with it. It reminds us regularly to strive for our stated goal."
Vanner Banner:   Did you own horses before the vanners and if so tell us about them.
" I have always loved horses. I started riding as a child in a converted car parking garage in Manhattan. The trails I rode then were through Central Park. I later lived in San Francisco where I could not have a horse but I went to riding camp every year and continued lessons in Golden Gate Park. I did not get my own horse until I was in high school and she went with me to Stanford University. I have owned one, and usually many more ever since. I had my black Quarter Horse stallion for 22 years. When the kids were young, we bred paint ponies. My daughter Kate liked the llamas but has always loved horses. She has been a serious rider most of her life and has been training horses for several years."
Vanner Banner: How many years have you owned Gypsy Vanners? "We purchased our first Vanners in the spring of 2006. Doug and I went to the UK in the spring of 2007 and purchased our first 2 stallions and some mares. Kate and I spent a month in the UK learning about the breed in 2008.
Vanner Banner:   How many Gypsy Vanners do you own ? "Currently we have 24 Vanners.   We have two main stallions, The Hustler and the Heavy Horse of Wales. We have 2 stallion prospects, SSFR Macintosh, who we bred and Producer's Strikes a Pose, who we imported. We have 9 mares, 6 fillies and foals and 3 filly foals. We also have 4 geldings".
Vanner Banner: How many foals do you normally have a year? "In past we have had 3 to 5 foals a year. Right now we are trying to better understand the genotypes of our horses. We will have about 10 mares deliver in 2011."
Vanner Banner:   Do you put a limit on how many foals you have a year and if so how many and please explain why. "We consider ourselves select breeders so we do not want to breed more horses than we can comfortably place in any given year. Although we understand Vanner quality many of the horses in our base herd are just starting their breeding career and we need to test their genotypes. We are still new at marketing horses. We have found that people seem to want horses of all ages, genders and training levels. This means one's inventory must be fairly large. This is fun because it gives us lots of horses to "play with" at any given time. It also means a lot more work to keep them all properly cared for. Eventually we hope to be known for providing breeding horses with the ability to improve the breed as well as quiet, trained riding and driving horses which are a joy to own and show."
Vanner Banner: Do you have a favorite out of your Stallions, Mares and if so please tell why. "Each of our horses is a favorite. We view them all as individuals, each with a story and a special place in our hearts. When they are sold, we hope to be able to find like minded people to cherish them. We encourage buyers to come and stay with us so we can teach them about their horse, how they were trained and what to expect from them. We have done this for years with llamas and find that it is very beneficial".
Vanner Banner:   Do you feel any of your stallions or mares are prepotent in producing one thing or another and if so please tell us about it. "Yes, The Hustler has proven to be very prepotent. Aside from passing on his quality, his tobiano babies usually have much more black than white. Most of them also have his active mind and amazing presence. He was bred heavily before we purchased him and as his first crop reaches 3, most of his foals are turning out very well. Teddy's oldest babies are yearlings. So far he has been generous with his bone, feather and temperament. Also, he is a black blagdon, however all, except one, of his babies have their mothers coloring."
Vanner Banner: Do you ride or show your Gypsy Vanners and what other activities you do with your Vanners and do you prefer one discipline over another?. "We ride and drive our Vanners. I like to ride bareback around home and on trails. Kate rides bareback, English, Western and jumps. We both love to drive. We have shown a fair amount in halter and the other disciplines. Since we are from the west, we have tried a few rodeos and gymkhana events too"
Vanner Banner:  Do you train your own Vanners or do you have someone else train for you and what age do you normally start training. "Kate is passionate about training.
We live in Pat Parelli's western back yard and have been attracted to natural horsemanship methods for years. We work with a very talented trainer, Kelly Day, who helps us hone our riding skills and trains us to train our horses. Training here starts from birth. Most of the building blocks: trust, respect and listen, are mastered by the time we start riding and driving at 2 1/2 to 3. They all go through baby and teenage stages but each gets the attention they need. The imported adult horses all seem to have presented their own challenges, mostly related to fear or resistance."
Vanner Banner: Can you please tell us what you look for when you are purchasing a Gypsy Vanner. "We have only purchased one gelding and he was well trained as well as good looking. All of the other horses have been purchased as breeding stock. Over time, as we developed a clearer understanding of the breed, we made better choices. We like a stockier, shorter coupled style horse, with great balance and conformation. Temperament and beauty are also important to us. Small heads and ears, arched necks, lots of hair (double manes, ample tails and feather from the knees and hocks are a goal.)"
Vanner Banner:Do you prefer to buy from a importer/trader or a private breeder in the USA and why? "We have purchased horses from private breeders and importers. I do not think that one is inherently better than the other. The most important key to being happy with what you buy is to really know what you want. It is easy to fall in love with the Vanner breed and jump into Vanner ownership. I hope people will take some time to really decide what they want to do with their horse, look at lots, even if they are on the internet, and be sure to understand the breed standard, especially if they plan to be breeders. Good horses for several uses come in all price ranges."
Vanner Banner: Does it make a difference to you on who you are buying from if they show their horses or not? "I would not care if a seller showed their horses or not. Things may be getting better but halter classes are still based on the judge's opinion. I have seen many judges select horses most like the other breeds they are more familiar with. I have seen horses of a non-traditional color stand out the crowd of black and white and seem to be favored for that reason alone. Judging isn't easy and I appreciate the judges who take on an unfamiliar breed and do their best to judge them. As I have learned more I am beginning to understand the not always obvious reasons why people do better in performance classes as well. At this point I do not put much stock in horse show results for determining quality but they are still fun to participate in and watch. "
Vanner Banner: How do you feel about the GVHS breeder/judges seminars and evaluations? "I am happy that the GVHS has started training judges, breeders and owners. Having an understandable breed standard is essential for all breeds. I think that educating everyone who will listen about them is the key. I am glad that the GVHS is taking a leadership role in the industry in this respect. I am personally not sure that there is enough variation in the standard right now to accommodate the variety of types we have seen in the UK. Differing sizes and proportions, based on use, do exist and I think they should be recognized as equals, provided they all have the "Vanner characteristics". I hope that these types within the breed will be recognized now so that the judges will have this information when placing their class. I worry that horses with so much to give to the breed will not receive the scores they deserve at evaluations or in the show ring.   Most of the horses doing well right now are what I would call the less drafty American type. I fear that if this continues that the breed we are protecting will change away from what any gypsy would own. In my opinion this does not honor the gypsies or the horse they created; a founding precept of the GVHS."
Vanner Banner: What made you decide to register your horses and become members with the GVHS? "We came to the breed through other GVHS members. Joining and registering our horses with the GVHS was only natural. I also like the GVHS because it seems to be trying to reflect the wishes of its members. I see other Gypsy horse groups which seem to lack focus or are more interested in single purpose crossbreds. Another has the "we know best so join or we won't talk to you" policy. I am a member and there is talking but not listening, at least to me. Especially, with regard to the registry, I like the fact that I can get my DNA results. The GVHS will also help others who are trying to parent verify their horses. I don't think that a registry or their DNA data base should be used as a proprietary "club" to make people join. This sort of pettiness and squabbling between the organizations make it harder for all gypsy horse owners and really hurts the standing of our breed in the horse industry and the eyes of the general public."
Vanner Banner: Do you have a specific feeding program?
" We try to keep our horses on pasture as much as possible. We have snow on the ground 5 or more months of the year and then, we feed grass hay, a 12-12 mineral block and "Real Salt" from Utah. We do sometimes supplement young horses and nursing mares with grain products. We have always kept our horses healthy but on the lean side. Unfortunately the trend in the UK and here for the show ring, is favoring a fatter and fatter horse. I was told on our trip to the UK this year that lots of weight can hide lots of faults. I agree. I also know that too much protein will make the feather stiff and more breakable. We do want to be able to compete so we have started "beefing" up our show horses. The rest will stay as they are."
Vanner Banner: How do you feel about crossbreeding? " As a rule we do not crossbreed. We would make an exception if the result would be a registered Drum Horse. We think that our stallions would be able to add a considerable amount of refinement to a Drum Horse offspring. Our stallions are smaller then required by at least one Drum Horse registry and I would worry that their offspring might not make the height requirements.
Vanner Banner: Do you stand your stallions to the public ? "We do stand our stallions publically, via shipped semen, because we believe that they are making a contribution to the breed. We do not have enough mares to produce the offspring we think that they would have sired in a year in the UK. We do reserve the right to decide what mares they breed and would refuse one we did not think would be a good match. We also set our breeding fees quite high so only serious breeders with knowledge of the process and a clear direction in their breeding programs will be interested."
Vanner Banner: Is there anything that has happened that is special or funny with your Vanners that you can share . "We have had several special things happen with our Vanners.
Our first foal was a grey filly we call Kizzy. She went to her first show at her mother's side. Kate had worked with her and we entered her in the Obstacle in Hand class. Kizzy and Kate were amazing. The bond of trust between them was evident as they carefully negotiated the course. Kizzy and Kate won the class, beating many adult horses and handlers. It brought tears to my eyes. Last year at the same show Kate took Traveler, a 2 year old stallion, into the ring for an unrehearsed freestyle performance. Traveler quietly did as he had been trained, obediently circling Kate at the gate as requested. Then she sent him off and he realized that he was not on a lounge line. He took off, bucking and farting, using the whole arena. Then Kate whistled softly to him. He happily returned, stopping in front of her to have his forehead rubbed. They repeated this process several times. Their performance was appreciated by the crowd and the judge. They got first place."
Vanner Banner: Is there anything else you would like to add?
" I would like to tell people why we are so happy to have found the Vanner, as they are known in the US. This is an amazing breed of horse. They are naturally friendly and beautiful. We have found them to be wonderful partners as well. We have had several other great breeds of horse but the Vanner, although possibly not the best at any one thing seems to be good at everything. Working safely with horses does require knowledge and practice but I do think that they can be inherently safer to work with than many other breeds."